1. M. Scott Peck: "We get to die... I don't know about you, but I'm getting a bit tired. Not so tired that I'm ready to call it quits, but if I thought I'd have to wade through this crap for another three or four hundred years, I would cash in my chis sooner rather than later." Does Peck have a pessimistic view of life? Is he waiting for Godot?
2. Epicurus believed that nothing comes from nothing, that nothing exists except for atoms moving in void, and that the soul therefore must be made of atoms. With this in mind, death therefore must be the natural dispersion of particular combination of atoms that comprise a human soul. What does this say about the belief in afterlife? Is death truly the end?
3. Can the acceptance of death truly relieve anxiety?
1.Peck’s statements can be viewed as pessimistic by some, but, in another sense, they do seem to speak a great deal of truth. If we were faced with the idea that death was never going to happen and life would go on indefinitely, the urgency of life would be completely lost. Especially for the everyday working man, the prospect that one’s job, one’s daily sacrifices, the injustices one continuously bears would go on forever could be extremely daunting. In that sense, death could seem like Godot: the hope that people wait for all their lives.
ReplyDeleteWhile Peck’s statements are not completely false, I do not view death as a thing that I expectantly wait for until the end of time. Rather, I see death like an inevitable sentence (like prisoners on death row) that makes each moment so much more special. This is exactly because these moments may not last forever that they seem so special. In the words of Barry, “At the same time, death is what gives life its existential urgency. It allows us to understand our existence, to measure ourselves in the light of finite possibilities, to make choices and take responsibility for them…It opens us to projects and possibilities that otherwise might be swamped by life’s petty concerns” (Barry 63). By the constant reminder of death, I avoid falling into the trap Heidegger labels “fallenness” – avoid forgetting death by being totally consumed in the busyness of life.
2.Epicures’s belief that death is just “…a natural dispersion of the particular combination of atoms that compromise a human soul,” leads one to question just what this definition’s implications are for the afterlife (qtd. in Barry 72). Epicures went on to state that, “Death is nothing to us, for that which is dissolved is without sensation; and that which lacks sensation is nothing to us” (qtd. in Barry 72). Epicures makes death sound as if it ends sensation because the particles that used to be the person are no longer the person. If that is so, where did the particles go? Epicures, at least in Barry’s text, does not go on to explain what happens to the particles that were once us. Then, like today, what happens after death can still be guessed at. But, the idea that the particles still do exist can lead one to postulate that there may be life after death, if only for the particles floating around.
3.While many argue that accepting death can decrease one’s anxiety about it, I have to argue against that idea. As discussed in chapter three, The Consciousness of Death, seeing death as an objective experience helps to rationalize it – it happens to everyone, so of course, it will happen to me. While this rational view may not help us when death is actually occurring to us, it helps us get through the day without being paralyzed by its prospect. I find myself doing this very often – I see papers written on death, I see people in their last months or days of life, and I reason that this will of course happen to me, but not until I am ready, when I am old and have lived fully.
After reading these chapters, I have come to realize that I may never be able to accept death, but can give up the delusion of immortality (through objectifying death), that I tend to carry with me as a young adult. I was most touched by Kierkegaard’s piece on “death rehearsal.” Kierkegaard credits facing death with providing the catalyst to increase our faith in God, giving us the courage “…necessary to express in existence whatever is essentially human” (Barry 60). I, like Kierkegaard, credit a strong personal relationship with God as the only way to accept all that befalls us in life – “Only by an infinite relationship to God [can] doubt be calmed, only by an infinitely free relationship to God [can] anxiety be transformed into joy” (qtd. in Barry 60).While I may never be free from the anxiety of death, I can use death as a “…catalyst of growth [and a]means to a personal relationship with God”(Barry 60).
I had a pt. today who really supported M. Scott Peak's quote above. She was an elderly women who had, what she considered, the "best life she could have hoped for." She was ready. I didn't realize how situations could really effect how I feel about someone not wanting to live anymore. Although, maybe more fittingly in her case she had accepted the inevitability of her death and was thankful for the life she had lived. I think that it would be hard to live beyond 100. You would witness first-hand the deaths of many of those who you love and the slow deterioration of your own body. I think that in and of itself would cause anxiety. One thing that my patient was today was calm. She had no anxiety what so ever about her current state. It amazes me sometimes how much grace some people have in living. It amazes me even more when they have that same grace when they are dying.
ReplyDeleteI do not view Peck's comment as pessimistic. He never said he wanted to die, he even mentioned that he wasn't ready to call it quits. I feel like what Peck was trying to say was that if he had to continue to wait around for death he wouldn't want to live. I don't blame him, I feel the same way, and I do not view myself as pessimistic at all. I wouldn't want to feel like death would never occur, I would rather it just happen. I can agree with what Michelle stated that death could seem like Godot: the hope that people wait for all their lives. I feel like we all do wait for death because we never know specifically when death will take place.
ReplyDeleteLooking at what Epicurus believed that nothing comes from nothing, that nothing exists except for atoms moving in void. He also believed that "fear was a great evil that afflicted humankind" (Barry, p. 71). So when asked "What does this say about the belief in afterlife? Is death truly the end?" It is hard for me to respond. I can't say that I necessarily believe what Epicurus believes, and every one has there own different beliefs on what actually occurs in the afterlife. Just like we don't know if death truly is the end, we won't know what happens until we die.
Lastly, when deciding if the acceptance of death relieves anxiety we don't know for sure. Reading chapters 3 and 4 there are many good arguments that could go both ways that death does and doesn't relieve anxiety. Personally, I believe that the acceptance of death could relieve anxiety because you would then know that you won't have to live with the anxiety for ever. But there are some people in the world who may never accept death, and become more anxious. I think that it depends on each individual.
1.) I don't think that Peck has a pessimistic view of life. I think that in this statement he is just showing that he has come to terms with his inevitable death, is at peace with, and does not fear it. In accepting this he has also probably lived a life that he finds fulfilling and that is not pessimistic. I don't think that he is anxiously waiting for Godot and excited for his time to die, but in essence he is waiting for it, everyone is. He just accepts that he is waiting and is ready for whenever his time happens to come and will not try to fight it. I think it is reasonable for him to say that hes not ready to call it quits yet but if he knew he would have to live for three or four hundred years he would cash in his chips. Life has hardships and sometimes horrible things happen. For most people I think that doing the same boring or tedious activities everyday and experiencing the trials of life is not something that they would want to do for eternity. People may take his statement as being pessimistic because they feel like no one should be ready to die but that may be because they have not come to terms with the fact that they will die. They have not accepted their own death, and will therefore refuse to acknowledge that other people have done so because that would make theirs a definite reality.
ReplyDelete2.) This means that Epicurus does not believe in the same kind of afterlife that many people do. If when a person dies the atoms that comprised their soul just disperse into the air then their soul does not remain in tact and live on somewhere else, whether it be heaven or not. In his view I suppose there could be an after life but it would just be whatever the atoms that once made up the soul now made up, and pieces of the soul could be scattered everywhere and be in a number of many different things. In this sense, death is truly the end of the person. Since the atoms have no connection in any way and do not reflect the soul from which they came from then once they are dispersed nothing from the person still exists, and it is the end. In the opposite view, if the soul remains and persists in an after life then death is only the end to a mortal existence on Earth that continues elsewhere. Epicurus's view though does not fit this, so to him death would be the end.
3.) I think that acceptance of death relieves anxiety that a person might feel when they think about their own death, but not the general, every-day anxieties that they feel. People feel anxiety about death I think largely because of the society that we live in which has been taught to fear death and take it as an event that happens to other people but never us. Somewhere we do know that it will happen to us but have never been challenged to face it, so that makes it even more troubling for us to consider. Once we do think about it and come to accept its certainty, then the anxiety that we previously felt when the concept was put forward will at least be less, if not disappear completely.
1. I believe that M. Scott Peck does not have a pessimistic view of life. Since we do not know when our own deaths will occur, we feel as if we have some sort of time limit to live. I believe that we set our own time limits for some milestones, such as “I want to be married before thirty” or “I want to have kids before I’m forty”. Unfortunately, we don’t know when we will fall in love or when we will be blessed with children. Therefore, we should view life as a gift and seize the moments we have as opportunities to live life to the fullest. I don’t necessarily believe that Peck is waiting for Godet but more so just going through the motions of everyday life.
ReplyDelete2. I do not believe that we are all made of particles, but rather we are people made up of different phases. First you have the now in which you are living, and then there is death, followed by an afterlife. I believe that there is an afterlife and that it has nothing to do with particles. In my opinion, death is not truly the end, just an end of a phase.
3. I don’t believe that accepting death can truly relieve anxiety because of the fear of the unknown. We can accept the fact that death is inevitable but we do not want to accept the possibility that we could die tomorrow or even today. We view death as something in the distant future, when in reality it could be closer than think. That being said, we shouldn’t live our lives in fear of when death might happen but instead embrace the moments we have in every day.
I agree with everyone so far in that M. Scott Peck does not have a pessimistic view of life. He feels tired and knows that he will only become more tired the older he gets. I don’t think Peck is waiting for Godet either. I agree with Katlyn that he is just getting bored with going through the motions of everyday life. I think he sees death as a change and renewal which is why he wouldn’t want to wait three or four hundred years to experience it. He says he is not ready to call it quits, and I think that is probably because he hasn’t done everything in his life that he would like to do before he dies. If this is the case, he is assuming that he will eventually do those things and then he will be ready to die. Let’s say he continues going through those same boring motions every day for many years and never actually accomplishes or experiences whatever it is he feels he hasn’t at the time he wrote this. Would he still be ready to cash in his chips sooner rather than later?
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with Epicurus in that the soul must be made of atoms. I believe that death is an end to our physical bodies, but not our souls. I believe our physical bodies are made of atoms that break down and disperse when we die and our bodies decay. When we die our soul separates itself from our physical body and lives on in an afterlife. As for what Katlyn said, I also believe that our souls go through different phases. Our soul is one with our physical body while our bodies are in the living phase, and when our body dies our soul leaves our bodies but enters the new afterlife phase.
Peck does not have a pessimistic viewpoint because in a way he is right. If there the future is only going to be a continuation of the present, if there is no afterlife then there is no real reason to live. The only argument for living for the day is to indulge in the pleasures of the present, yet one would have to wade through lots of misery in order to reach this point. Perhaps the only argument for living without belief of the afterlife would be if one tries to improve the earth more than it was before one's existence. However, this also encounters a problem. Logically it would be beneficial to the earth for one not to exist because then that individual would not be consuming resources that take immense amounts of energy to grow. One would also not need to reproduce which would take even consume more resources. In this way, to better the earth would be not to exist at all. Therefore, if one merely exists for the mere purpose of existing then they really don't benefit the earth of human life. Only if one believes in an afterlife can one justify their life. In short, without an afterlife Peck is absolutely right.
ReplyDeleteOne of the greatest parts of life is that it is so limited and finite. This simple fact gives us as humans a much bigger appreciation for life. It's the fact that our time here on Earth is so short that makes life so precious. Otherwise, I believe humans would mostly take life for granted. We would no longer have as much motivation to go out and accomplish our goals with the small amount of time we have. Simply a longer life for humanity would lead to a less meaningful one and I believe this is what Peck was aiming for. Thus, in no way do I believe his statement is pessimistic rather, he feels that life was meant to be limited and ultimately that's what gives it its value.
ReplyDeleteThroughout history man's greatest fear has been the unknown and perhaps the greatest unknown of all is death and what lies afterward. The simple not knowing of what is to come when death is imminent is what creates anxiety and ultimately many people's denial of death. Accepting death can be the first courageous act of overcoming this anxiety however, completely avoiding this fear is impossible. Whether it is question regarding the pain involved or if there's afterlife waiting, humans will always have some type of fear as they approach death. Accepting death is by all means an act of "facing your fears" when it comes to death but as long as death remains unknown to us, we will always have some type of anxiety.
2. I don't think Epicurus believes in an afterlife if the soul is supposed to split into a thousand atoms when the body dies. However, I do not agree with him at all. Because of my faith I believe that once the body dies, the soul will go into the afterlife and go to Heaven. I can't imagine our lives just ending once our physical state is no more. There has to be another adventure to have, or another part to our story.
ReplyDelete3. Even though a person might have accepted the idea that it is their time to die, I still think they might have a little anxiety towards the whole thing. When I was following a Hospice of the Bluegrass nurse around one day we saw a patient dying from end stage COPD. He was in such a good mood about things, and was even joking around about how the day before he told a sale call that it didn't matter if bought something because he was dying and he was completely okay with it. However, the patient was taking Ativan at night to calm his anxiety he had so he could sleep. I'm thinking that even though we have accepted death, we still have anxiety because we have no idea when it is going to happen and how we are going to die. It might be painful, but we might also get lucky and die in our sleep. So no matter what, I think anxiety will always be there whether we've accepted the idea or not.
Anne Schoettelkotte
ReplyDeleteChapter 4: If nothing comes from nothing where do atoms come from? I think that religion is a huge way to answer these questions which we cannot answer and therefore it gives us something to beleive in. However if Epicurus is correct, and our sould is made of atoms and death is a natural dispersion of atoms, then the afterlife is really nothing at all. We are disassembled and what made us human ceasts to exhist. Death then, is the end. Atoms don't have conscious being, they are particles that act according to laws of physics and chemistry. If our soul truly is just atoms, then we cease to exhist at death. But again, this is when religion really helps out i think. Because through religion we do beleive there is more to the afterlife. No matter what our religion, we beleive there is something more than just disassembling into atoms.
3. I think that the acceptance of death decreases anxiety, but does not truly relieve it. The fear of death is largely due to four reasons: the fear of the unknown, the fear of losing our loved ones, the fear of pain and suffering and being alone at the time of death, or the fear of ceasing to exist or the finality of death. Many people fear dying more than death itself. Most people are afraid of dying a violent or painful death. Dying can be a positive and rewarding experience; it can be a time of personal freedom and growth. However, dying well begins with death acceptance. All living organisms die; there is no exception. Human beings alone are burdened with the cognitive capacity to be aware of their own inevitable mortality and to fear what may come afterwards. Our capacity to reflect on the meaning of life and death creates existential anxiety.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with eal110 and that "Since the atoms have no connection in any way and do not reflect the soul from which they came from then once they are dispersed nothing from the person still exists, and it is the end. In the opposite view, if the soul remains and persists in an after life then death is only the end to a mortal existence on Earth that continues elsewhere. Epicurus's view though does not fit this, so to him death would be the end". However I disagree with Epicurus's belief about death. I believe that there is an after life and that death is not the end of ones life.
ReplyDelete1. Peck does not have a pessimistic view on death because death shouldn’t be something that people should constantly worry about. Death is bound to happen hopefully later than sooner. A book that I read back in middle school was called Tuck Everlasting I believe, but in this book a guy drank from the “fountain of youth,” and could live forever. If I recall correctly he would not wish this on anyone because he was tired of living for centuries. Death is a natural part of life and it is faith of an afterlife that keeps people motivated. I have seen people die at such a young age, specifically my cousin who was 21 when he passed away and I start to question my faith a little bit, but the hopes of an afterlife keeps me going in tough times. I don’t think we should consciously be thinking about death every minute and to take risks in our lives. This past summer I went hang gliding and sure I thought about death then, but I literally took a “leap of faith,” and I believe it has made me a little bit stronger in a mental state. So no, I don’t think it is a pessimistic view, I believe we should live our lives to the fullest for the short amount of time we have on earth and make the most of it.
ReplyDelete2. I believe there is an afterlife because the belief that we just decompose and that is all is a pessimistic view on life. The thought of an afterlife keeps people motivated to strive to do well here on earth and get to the afterlife. I don’t understand what he means that nothing comes from nothing? Obviously we had to come from something or else why would we here? We may be just atoms floating around, but where do those atoms go once they die?
3. The acceptance of death does relieve anxiety. I mentioned earlier that my cousin died when he was 21, but I didn’t mention he had Down syndrome. When he was fighting to stay alive that is all he kept mentioning was heaven and he was accepting death and he was more peaceful in that time than any other time in the world. He kept telling my aunt that he was going to watch his favorite team, the Cincinnati Reds from heaven. So yes, accepting death and coming to peace with it will relieve anxiety.
from Megan,
ReplyDelete1. I personally don't find Peck's thinking pessimistic at all. I agree that this is just the acceptance that death is for everyone the inevitable. He's just putting into words what all of us feel sometimes, that when so many things that are undesirable occur in our lives why do we all prolong it. It forces us to question why people put up with all the turmoils of life just for it all to end in death. Peck's point of view forces us to consider what about our lives makes them worth living, it's not to say that life has no point at all. It's just to say that if you truly believe in nothing after death that you need to create some sort of meaning in your life now so that when you do die the benefits of your life hopefully out weigh all the negatives that we experience.
3. I personally believe that acceptance of death can relieve anxiety. Because when we come to accept death we begin to understand what it means to live each moment for what it is. Instead of procrastinating our problems we are motivated to face them which leaves us less time to wallow in regrets and self-pity. In accepting death we are come to realize that life is to short and death is too unpredictable to waste time being depressed. Therefore, we can spend more time creating a life that we are proud of and creating a self-awareness that will make us into the individuals we want to be when we die. So in creating a life that we are proud of, we have less regrets when we encounter death because we can know that even if our death is sudden we die being someone we are proud of and accomplished what we wanted to. Therefore, we have a decreased anxiety.